We are not “Christians”, we are Messianic Jews. I was born to Jewish parents with a long line of Jewish roots. We practice Jewish holidays, recite Jewish prayers and keep Jewish traditions. We are here, we are valid and we aren’t going anywhere.
Can’t keep Jewish holidays and traditions if you believe in Jesus. They are not compatible. He failed in every way to be the Jewish Moshiach.
I really fucking hate Christian missionaries that think that little sins like “bearing false witness” are acceptable when engaging in pious fraud for Jesus. And that’s all Messianic jews are. Lying frauds attempting to engage in cultural genocide, since actual genocide didn’t work.
OP, you’re not valid.
every jew @ “jews” for jesus
big mood but also Jews for Judaism is a reactionary group
Christian literally means a follower of Jesus. OP if you ain’t a Christian then why are you following Jesus?
Yeah go ahead and invalidate an entire sect of Judiasm. We don’t matter right. My grandmothers birth family were Messianic Jews and were of Israeli descent, but you know whatever just keep being absolute dickholes I guess. We’re lying frauds? what a joke y'all are.
List of Jewish organizations/groups/people who don’t recognize messianics as a valid sect of Judaism:
The Entire State of Israel (in Legal-Civil matters)
All of the Head Rabbis of the State of Israel (In Religious matters)
Birthright-Taglit
Orthodox (MoDox, Yeshivish, and other)
Chabad
other Hasidic sects
Reconstructionists
Reform Judaism and the URJ
Conservative/Masorti Judaism
Humanists
Sephardim
Ethiopian Jews/Beta Israel
Bnei Israel
Kaifeng Jews
Secular Jews
Unaffiliated
Me
Moshe
Hashem
Time to bust out one of my favourite images:
I am so deeply sorry for my woeful ignorance here but does someone have the emotional energy to explain what the dispute is here and what has everyones backs up so badly about Messianics?
I’d be greatful if someone who feels able could private message me or explain to me here. I have little understanding of Judaism and this is something I am trying to learn about but I struggle to read books or focus on documentaries (Plus I seldom trust documentaries) due to my learning difficulties and also I end up sobbing uncontrollably whenever I read of the atrocities both past and ongoing, I do not turn a blind eye however and would be exceptionally greatful if someone who perhaps would enjoy educating me on the finer points of Judaism, to learn I need to be able to ask questions. I’m not expecting a full history lesson unless you are so inclined as one of the reasons I want to learn more about Judaism is so that I can more effectively shut down racist fuckwads.
I will do some research independently but would appreciate some source suggestions as I will end up spending all my mental energy on finding a source that is more fact based and less thinly veiled racism and misinformation.
Thank you for reading and just the time you spent reading is a kind use of your mental energy and I’m greatful.
The condensed version is very simple:
1.) Messianics are part of a movement formed by evangelical Christians specifically and intentionally to convert more Jewish people to Christianity in order to bring about Christian end times. Messianics have built up a culture of lying to and misleading Jewish people in order to further their goal of cultural genocide - erasing everything about Judaism which does not further THEIR goals.
2.) the actual Jewish religion fundamentally does not support believe in Jesus. He did not fulfill the Jewish requirements for being Moshiach, and Jewish law forbids worshipping anyone but G-d. And a human incarnation cannot be G-d, simply because that would make them divisible. There’s a million other reasons but the most important is that this is Avodah Zara or idol worship, and that is extremely forbidden to Jewish people. (We already mentioned the group Jews for Judaism, there’s another rabbi (Tovia Singer) on a website called outreach Judaism which specifically is about counter-missionary stuff. Otherwise Myjewishlearning.com is a good place.
No real Jewish organization recognizes messianics because A.) their end game is to make us Christian and wipe Judaism off the map in order to bring about the second coming and B.) they break fundamental laws, and the breaking of those laws means you are not counted amongst Klal Yisrael (the Jewish people). An ethnically Jewish person CAN return, if they give up the whole Jesus-messianic thing. But unless or until they do, they are simply a Christian person with Jewish heritage.
this is different from kids in interfaith families! Messianics are upsetting because they are lying to and deceiving Jewish people.
Apologies for my ignorance as well, but if you have time could you please go into more detail about how Jesus doesn’t meet the requirements to be the Messiah/Moshiach? (Also please please tell me if I, as a non Jew, should be using one of the words rather than the other aaa)
I grew up in a Christian home so I was obviously taught that he fulfilled everything perfectly ^^;
I mean essentially if you refer to Christianity saying Christ is just saying “Messiah” in Greek.
Whereas Mashiach/Moshiach (alt. pronunciation) is the hebrew for Anointed One, and is a Jewish term. Confusingly, Moshiah is the term for “Savior” but those are not the same thing, and in Hebrew these words are not actually etymologically similar and have different roots. In any case, we don’t believe Jesus is either the anointed one, or our savior.
The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). Jesus did not bring the people back to Israel or restore Jerusalem to Jewish power. Instead, he died.
He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). Jesus did not establish a government in Israel, much less one that was the “center” of the world. He established no government whatsoever, unlike another Jewish man whom people believed might be the Mashiach (Bar Kokhba).
He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). In Jesus’ lifetime, the second temple has already been built. It would be destroyed shortly after his death. He did not accomplish this. He did not restore worship there, and in the New Testament, he is recorded as having disrupted it instead. (See: chasing away moneylenders for people making pilgrimage and preventing them from affording…anything, overturning carts and cages of birds for sacrifice at the Temple)
Related: Mashiach will build the Third Temple, which Jesus obviously also didn’t do. Or rather, the Temple must have remained standing, which it obviously didn’t. [Ezekiel 37:26-28]
He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15). Jesus did not restore the Sanhedrin, or restore full power to the Sanhedrin. He did not defeat the Romans or even remove Roman influence from Israel.
Isaiah 2:4: The Mashiach will usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” War, disease, and oppression still exist.
Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel - uniting the entire human race as one: “G-d will be King over all the world—on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One” This also did not happen. If Jesus was the Mashiach, his followers would not have created a separate religion and accorded Jesus any divine power or status, because that divides G-d.
Also the Mashiach must be descended on his father’s side from King David in order to be from the same tribe/lineage. As Jesus by the NT had no human father, he could not be a descendent of King David qualified to be the Mashiach.
Many prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)
The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father – and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David. (1)
(1) In response, it is claimed that Joseph adopted Jesus, and passed on his genealogy via adoption. There are two problems with this claim:
a) There is no biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption.
b) Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn’t have. Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30). (Although Jeconiah repented as discussed in Talmud Sanhedrin 37a and elsewhere, it’s not at all clear from the early sources that his repentance was accepted to the degree that the royal line continued through him. See e.g. Bereishit Rabbah 98:7 that the line continued through Zedekiah.)
To answer this difficult problem, apologists claim that Jesus traces himself back to King David through his mother Mary, who allegedly descends from David, as shown in the third chapter of Luke. There are four basic problems with this claim:
a) There is no evidence that Mary descends from David. The third chapter of Luke traces Joseph’s genealogy, not Mary’s.
b) Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn’t help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not mother. cf. Numbers 1:18; Ezra 2:59.
c) Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not from a legitimate messianic family. According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon (2-Samuel 7:14; 1-Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6). The third chapter of Luke is irrelevant to this discussion because it describes lineage of David’s son Nathan, not Solomon. (Luke 3:31)
d) Luke 3:27 lists Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in his genealogy. These two also appear in Matthew 1:12 as descendants of the cursed Jeconiah. If Mary descends from them, it would also disqualify her from being a messianic progenitor.
So he’s not from the appropriate potential Messianic line, he did not fulfill any of the requirements of the Jewish Mashiach, and also he missed the era of the Prophets, so he isn’t even a Jewish prophet.
TL;DR Jesus did not fulfill any Jewish requirements to be Mashiach/The Anointed One. But Christians feel that he fulfilled Christian ideas of the Christian Messiah. It’s just they aren’t the same thing.
That was very educational. Thank you @keshetchai
This whole thing does an EXCELLENT job of explaining the whole issue of Jews for Jesus (which is to say that, according to every branch/sect of Judaism, they’re just not actually Jews). ALSO covers why Jesus wasn’t the Jewish Messiah.
Yeah “het ships are boring” but let’s not shit on het ships w/ trans people, black women, fat people, disabled women, and other groups that have been treated as “unloveable” by culture at large in preference for a ship between two white pretty boys.
I adore rick riordan but if anyone still has doubt on how he can have such big potholes in his stories, let me remind you that this man was originally going to title the Lightning Thief “The Son of Poseidon” and it was his middle school class that pointed out that if he named it that that the “mysterious and unknown identity” of Percy’s godly heritage would no longer be mysterious and unknown and rick was like “oh, yeah.”
